Inside the Block
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Inside the Block
Lexington Culinary Legend: Cole Arimes!
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A new breakfast and lunch spot in Versailles. A fine dining room nine floors above downtown Lexington. A members-only club with a rooftop pool that has to fight Kentucky weather. We sit down with restaurateur Cole Arimes to talk about what it really takes to build restaurants that last, from the first idea to the first menu pivot.
Cole also takes us through his latest project, Black Squirrel, including the local history behind the name and why Versailles is ready for a stronger food scene. Then we head to The Vine Lexington, where he breaks down the balancing act of a seafood-forward menu in a landlocked market, how guests learn to trust a chef-driven kitchen, and why “approachable” does not have to mean boring.
We also dig into hospitality leadership: managing multiple teams, mentoring chefs, keeping consistency night after night, and reducing front-of-house and back-of-house friction so the dining room feels calm even on a slammed Saturday. Along the way, we get into Kentucky-specific flavor and craft, from curing country ham to fermentation projects, plus Cole’s ultimate bourbon order and what he hopes for downtown Lexington’s growth.
Welcome And New Projects
SPEAKER_02We are back with the Inside the Block podcast, and I am here with the famous, as we were discussing, Cole Aremas, who is beyond busy lately. Thank you so much for being on.
SPEAKER_00Well, thanks for having me. I'm not sure I'd go that far with the description. I get to go that far.
SPEAKER_02I get to say these things. So owner of Eppings on East Side, owner of Cole's on Main. And I think we should jump
Black Squirrel Name And Vision
SPEAKER_02straight in. I want to know about your new projects.
SPEAKER_00Well, we've got uh the black squirrel in Versales. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Is and what building is it in in Versales?
SPEAKER_00Um it is the old, I'm gonna misquote, but the old uh union building, I believe. Sure. Uh it was uh Spark Community Cafe before we, you know, got got in there. Um, but just a beautiful old building with wood floors and lots of natural light and windows. And so we're uh doing a little uh breakfast lunch spot uh Wednesday through Sunday right now.
SPEAKER_02Great. And so for why black squirrel?
SPEAKER_00Black squirrel, my my my partner is a better uh person to ask this question because he can go into uh infinite detail. But the black squirrel is an old saddlebred sire. So a uh that is born out of out of Woodford County and uh has sire, I forget how many uh foals he sired, but uh a good chunk of the saddlebred industry has come from the black squirrel. And he was a big black horse with a bushy tail, so they called him squirrel. So he's the black squirrel. Yeah, and uh, but he also has ties to my partner's family way back when, and that's when I fall short.
SPEAKER_02You're like, yeah, sounds good. Check, let's go.
Why Versailles Needs Better Breakfast
SPEAKER_02So yeah, but you don't usually do, I mean, when I think of Eppings and I think of Coles, like you these are dinner spots, you know. So why breakfast and lunch?
SPEAKER_00Uh, you know, Versales, I I I think something new, and I think Versales is just ready for that kind of market to come in. Uh, you know, Versales is doing a whole lot downtown and really trying to revive everything down there. You go down Main Street and uh, you know, a good chunk of the buildings people are working on and trying to, you know, put businesses in or just rehab the buildings. But where they have a big void is just good food. Uh, you know, and there's no real place to uh to go to breakfast uh or luncheon for sales that uh people enjoy, I guess. I think our biggest competition is the marathon, apparently. I haven't eaten there, but I've heard they do a really good breakfast. Apparently they do really well. So um, you know, I'll never knock a uh, you know, a hole in the wall, uh, you know, food truck or whatever. Uh but uh but just looking at the location, you know, my partner kind of had to drag me there to take a look at it. But as soon as I walked in, I just kind of fell in love with the the vibe of the city, the direction that it's going, the building itself, and really just thought that there was a you know niche market there that we could, you know, hopefully enter into. And you know, where we go from here, I don't know. We might add dinner service on uh, you know, later. Right now, lunch and uh breakfast is doing very well. Good. I was about to ask, so it's been successful. No, it's uh it's been great. We were, you know, with all construction, we were behind. Uh, so we opened a little later into the year than we wanted to, but Keeneland was really good for us. You know, the bourbon tours are coming through, and you know, what again Versales is doing a really nice job. Uh Commerce for Sales, we they're doing a whole lot of festivals and things like that uh that go through the downtown. They've got kind of uh, you know, party district, so to speak, uh, to where people can mingle and walk around with their drinks and food. And, you know, they just did Burger Mania for the whole month of uh March, I guess, um, where you know, all restaurants had to do was participate and uh and really just to get free PR and there were no rules or regulations, we could do whatever we wanted, charge whatever we wanted. Um, but it really kind of showed, you know, the community that's there of all the restaurants trying to promote all the other restaurants and uh and really just uh it's a neat, neat little city that's that's it's growing back up.
SPEAKER_02It is. It's so and it's just such an easy quick drive. And I love Woodford.
SPEAKER_00Not not too bad at all. Yeah. And uh even through Keeneland, uh, you know, going to visit, uh, you know, the Keeneland traffic really wasn't uh an issue. Now, granted, our hours help with that because we're, you know, from uh the morning until about three o'clock, and so we miss all uh all the hoopla of Keeneland, but uh but a lot of people stopped in for breakfast uh during the meet, and hopefully we're uh we'll keep going.
The Vine Fine Dining In The Sky
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Tell me about the vine.
SPEAKER_00Well, the vine, uh, you know, downtown Lexington has been uh quite the project to uh to sign on for. It's uh changed a lot from what I originally signed on for to what it's uh you know kind of grown to. Um, but you know, on the ninth floor of uh the 106 building, uh downtown on Vine, we have put in a you know fine dining restaurant, uh, you know, a big horseshoe bar that seats uh about 25 or 30. It's a beautiful space. I love it. White tablecloth dining rooms. The developer uh put on uh you know a perimeter balcony around the whole thing that's you know 10 feet uh wide as you go across. So really the you know the views that you see of the city are just spectacular. Totally. You see UK's campus, you see all of downtown, uh the sunsets that come through. I mean, we've got the you know the best views in the city as far as I'm concerned. Um, but but again, at its core is a uh, you know, open to the public fine dining restaurant, uh where the menu ranges from you know anything from raw preparations to you know some seafood all the way up to you know high-end steaks or pastas or you know, along with you know, Kohl's and Eppings, we always, you know, the guest, it's always guest-driven. Uh we were a lot seafood forward when we first opened up and realized uh there was a need for that in Lexington, but not enough need to uh keep us busy. I see um so we so we've done a lot of reworking of the menu to make it a little more approachable, adding on pork chops and you know chicken dishes.
SPEAKER_02And are you still doing seafood though?
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, we're we we definitely have a full core of seafood. I mean, we're doing caviar and oysters and mussels, and you know, sea bass has been on the menu from the beginning, scallops, uh, but we've just kind of tried to balance that a little bit with uh, you know, good burgers on there now, and you know, like I say, pork chops, chicken melonets, uh, all kinds of things. And we keep playing with the menu, just like anywhere that opens up new that's kind of a chef-driven place. You never really know what your clientele is after. And sometimes you gotta, you know, start small and aim big and uh train them to trust you, which is you know what we went through at Kohl's coming from Cincinnati, and you know, I had thoughts of what a menu would be. And that first uh iteration was not the best received uh iteration of menus. No, as a whole, it was, but there were certain items that we had thrown on there that uh just our diners didn't trust us well enough yet. And you know, and the food scene has you know grown in Lexington, you know, over the past 14 years that I've been back. That now Coles, we can pretty much do whatever we want, and people are willing to give it a try. It might not always be a winner, but uh they they can at least appreciate what we're trying to do. Sure. And and that's kind of where we are at the Vine as far as the restaurant goes. And along with that, uh, you know, on the tenth floor and the eighth floor is the Vine Club, uh, which is a members-only uh social club. You know, my partners are kind of trying to uh create kind of the Soho House where you can, you know, you can come in and get a spa treatment on the eighth floor, then you know, hop up for dinner, finish up uh, you know, on the rooftop, it'll it'll have a pool. Uh so you can finish up by the pool or the lounge up there. And again, you know, it's on the rooftop uh downtown Lexington, so the the views are stellar completely. And uh, but you know, as we uh live and learn, we're finding it's uh difficult to open up all that on a rooftop. Uh-huh. Uh the lounge portion we just opened up a few weeks ago, and hopefully a few weeks from now we'll have all the T's crossed and dies outed to to get the pool and the kitchen and the uh pool sidebar up there open.
SPEAKER_02So is it like a structural thing? Like it's like it's just tough to put a pool up on a roof.
SPEAKER_00Oh, it's just tough when, you know, we had all the ice for, you know, two or three weeks. Yeah, I didn't think about it. You know, you get you get a lot of weather. It's uh been a lot of weather-related delays. Sure. Uh, which happened, you know, no matter what you're doing. But you know, we've had the you know, the buck hoist elevator breakdown and you know, uh everything that can go wrong will go wrong. And uh, but we're uh we're getting close and it's getting exciting, and uh, I can't wait to well jump in the pool.
SPEAKER_01Just jump in feet first, see how it goes. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00But we we feel that, you know, as the social clubs have kind of you know started coming up in Lexington, that uh that seems to be what a lot of people are missing. And I think it's a part of the age of you know, technology, you're staring at your screen all day. Sure. Um, you know, but to give people a space where they can come and socialize and you know, and have a home away from home, so to speak.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, a third place.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yeah. Um but but a place that you can come and spend the day. Yeah, you know, hit the pool, hit the spa, you know, get some light bites upstairs, have a nice dinner downstairs. Don't even have to leave the building. Don't even have to leave. You don't even have to leave the building. So that's one-stop shop. So that's kind of what we're after down there. And so far it's off to a you know, a great start, but you know, with all new things, it takes a while.
SPEAKER_02Well, I was so excited to see when I I went um when you'd first open, and I was just like, man, it's so seafood forward. Like, and I think you're right about like like there is kind of a need for that. And so I mean, it it's interesting that you know, of course, you you're so good at pivoting and like taking, you know, uh what your audience is saying and like as feedback and changing things here and there, but I'm so glad to hear that you still have the seafood though, because we need it.
SPEAKER_00No, absolutely. Well, what we found was you know, everybody enjoyed the seafood, and we had, you know, delicious, great, fresh seafood that's you know, just beautiful, but not everybody wants to eat seafood every day.
SPEAKER_02Why? I do. This is this is dumb.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think if you're on the coast, it's a you know, it's a different story. You're kind of kind of like people are suspicious of it. I think there's a little bit of that, but I also think I mean I don't want to eat fish every day.
SPEAKER_02You don't?
SPEAKER_00Uh no. Um turning the camera off. I mean, I'm red meat.
SPEAKER_02So you told me that once that you really love cooking a steak.
SPEAKER_00I love a good steak. I uh well, I love braised beef. I love, you know, I love pork, but I am more I'll eat seafood uh because I enjoy it, but it's not really what I'll crave. Sure. Um, but if I go to a restaurant like the vine that, you know, has some good seafood, I'm I'm gonna give it a try.
SPEAKER_02When in Rome.
SPEAKER_00Uh, because that's not what I'm gonna cook at home. Right.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, and that's a good point too. I love getting seafood out because I don't want my whole house to smell like it when I'm cooking it at the house.
SPEAKER_00Well, and it's really hard to find really nice, fresh seafood at the store. In the landlocked state where it's uh for sure.
Leading Multiple Restaurants Through Teams
SPEAKER_02So, where do you let your hair down the most of all of your establishments in terms of like creativity, like culinary, like where you'll you'll try things out just to try them out, like kind of get wild.
SPEAKER_00Is it cold? Typically, my home base is cold. Uh, you know, especially in this past year where I have, you know, had to pivot because I'm, you know, as I always say, I wake up in the morning, I take the kids to school, and I go to where the first fire is. Uh and you know, if that's in versale or something. I was like, really?
SPEAKER_02I mean, there's not four of you. You have four different places.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so so so it's hard, but I've got, you know, really good teams that, you know, all four. You know, I couldn't do, you know, any of it without, you know, the teams that I have in place, front of the house and back of the house. Uh, but Cole's is, you know, where I'm most comfortable. That's where I, you know, still know where, you know, all the ins and outs and pots and pans and you know, and every everything is. I still occasionally I've gone through some chef transitions there and I've worked a few shifts, and those are, you know, happy moments for me because all I can worry about are the tickets and the guest uh, you know, at that location. But where I have, you know, had to pivot and really love doing it is really just putting my time and investment into the chefs around me. And, you know, I've I've never claimed to be the most creative chef on the planet, but I can take your idea and show you how to make 30 of them on a you know Saturday night.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I love that.
SPEAKER_00And, you know, to make it a consistent product and you know, restaurants, consistency is is the key. Sure. And, you know, you you don't go to McDonald's and forgive me for the people I know that own McDonald's and expect the best burger in the world, but you know what you're gonna get. It's always the same. So you're comfortable spending your money on it, and that's what, you know, especially at our level on our price point, you know, people have to understand that they're gonna spend their hard-earned money, but they know that they're feel safe in what they're gonna get that's gonna be good and delicious and you know, and bring them back for the next time. So really developing the chefs is really uh, you know, the fun for me right now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like an apprentice program.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. And yeah, you know, by the time, you know, like at Eppings, we've got two sous chefs, a chef, and then I've got a chef and a sous-chef at every other location. So keeping them pointed in the right direction. And, you know, for me, it's a mind jungle sometimes just trying to keep straight what menus what at this point. Uh, but it but for me, the fun is watching their ideas and helping them, uh, you know, with my 30, some odd years of experience, say, yeah, I tried that back in, you know, 90s.
SPEAKER_02Now listen here. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Let's do it this way. And uh, and you know, and they get to learn and I get to see their creativity. And, you know, the the team is really what brings all of these places together.
SPEAKER_02I bet you're so nice to work for, though, because like I was a server all through grad school and I bartended a little bit too, and I would avoid the kitchen like the plague because every chef that I would work, I mean, they were mean. Why are they mean, Cole?
SPEAKER_00Why are they always mean? That is a loaded question.
SPEAKER_02Because you're stressed out.
SPEAKER_00Uh, a lot of it. I mean, you're you know, you're standing in a kitchen that's a hundred degrees and dealing with dumb servers. Well, I I won't say dumb servers. I would never say dumb servers. Um, but you know, a lot of it just comes from, you know, the a lot of times that chef or that cook don't really quite understand what the server is going through because they haven't lived in that world. So for me, I mean, I've been a busser, a dishwasher, a server, a hostess of, you know, I I've done all of it and I know for a fact that that server doesn't want to ring that check in with, you know, 10 lines of red substitutions. They just want to sell that item and, you know, and and make it real easy. So um 25 years ago, I was probably a little more hot-headed, a little more bravado. Uh, you know, I've seen the restaurant industry, you know, as a whole change quite a bit from uh, you know, wild, wild west in the kitchen to, you know, you get to say unkind things, and you know, and I've never really lived in that world, but the restaurant just runs better if the front of the house and the back of the house get along. Of course. Uh, you know, we're all here for the guests, we're all here for the same thing. And the more you can relay and keep repeating that message to all the staff, front and back of the house, then you know, the happier everybody is. Totally. And I think that shows, you know, out in the dining room too, on stage that, you know, you can tell that a server comes out and they just got torn up from the kitchen because you wanted no onions on a dish that's not possible, and why don't they know that? And you know, and it's it's a lot for them to balance. Sure. Um, a cook or a chef.
SPEAKER_02Conflict management trick.
SPEAKER_00Well, a co a cook or a chef only has to worry about what's coming out of the kitchen. The service staff has to worry about what's in the cocktails, what beers we have, what's the glass pores, what also what are the allergies and everything in the kitchen, and you know, and you're getting your butt kicked on a Saturday night, it can be hard to rapid fire that out of your brain. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02I think everybody should have to work in a restaurant at some point in their life. I mean, it's just it teaches you so much about people. Oh, I think everybody should put a year in.
SPEAKER_00I agree completely. And uh and they'll understand. I mean, you know, the funniest funniest thing that comes to mind as far as servers kind of losing their you know minds sometimes is we had one come back and ask if there was onion powder in the uh flower seasoned flour for the onion rings because they had an onion allergy. And that's one of those moments that you just look at the server and you're like, think about what you're saying. Yeah, right, right, right. Let's let's let's uh but it's so easy for your brain to fall out that you know, uh, but getting along uh makes it a lot easier.
SPEAKER_02Of course. Of
What Lexington Diners Crave Now
SPEAKER_02course. So how else? I mean, you've been in, you know, the culinary industry for 25 years, you said.
SPEAKER_00Uh a little over 30. Oh, a little over thirty. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02How has it changed in that amount of time, besides just being wild wild west of the kitchen, like trends and like what what do diners want then and now?
SPEAKER_00And you know, I don't think diners have changed too much uh as far as I go. Again, I I think some of it's just being able to trust the restaurant that, you know, you've come in a hundred times, the food's been good, there's a feature that's kind of weird. Hey, let's give it a try. Um, but you know, ultimately, you know, comfort food, especially in Lexington, rule rules supreme. Of course.
SPEAKER_02Uh I asked you this last year because it was I was so fascinated by like Lexington specific. What is like what's our palate, you know, as a Lexington, what's like our typical and you do you remember what you had said? If there's one thing you can always put on a menu that will always, always do well in Lexington.
SPEAKER_00Mashed potatoes and green beans? Uh shrimp and grits. Yeah, shrimp and grits.
SPEAKER_02Shrimp and grits, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I was like, that is fascinating too. Well, you know, being being, you know, south adjacent, you know, uh the comfort food. I mean, that's what I grew up eating. And, you know, and that always does really well. And, you know, at Cole's, especially in the beginning, we, you know, did a lot of spins on that traditional country food to, you know, or comfort food to make it a little more refined and you know, fancy, if you will, and you know, and those things do well. But I think uh, you know, the Lexington palette uh, you know, has evolved. And people are, you know, it used to be you would run, you know, not a well-known fish if you're not running halibut or swordfish or mahi. You know, it doesn't sell very well, but now we're running, you know, things like Hake and you know, some odd fish that, you know, people are more willing to, you know, give it a try. I've always said if you're running an odd fish, you need to make it a very approachable set. Totally. I remember this stuff. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's like baby steps. Like there'll be something on the plate you'll like. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And you know, and that's you know, always what I encourage with my kids and everything is or everybody is to, you know, you always gotta give something a try. Uh, you know, there's very few things that I don't like, but even though I don't like beats, I'll still try them occasionally just to see, you know, how that goes. And it turns out I like golden beats, I just don't like purple beats.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh, you know, my my kids are a little tough with that.
SPEAKER_02Uh I was gonna say, I mean, with a chef as their as a dad, like do you I mean, do you go home and just like make them these ill elaborate meals?
SPEAKER_00And are they adventurous eaters? Uh, my son is a very adventurous eater. Uh, he is the one that if you he tells you he doesn't like something, he doesn't like it. I mean, you just don't push in. My daughter says I don't like it, we force her to eat it and take another bite.
SPEAKER_02Oh, it's pretty good. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But she is also, I mean, she's 12, she has her food handler's permit, uh, is not afraid to get in the kitchen and you know, move move a knife or make chicken tenders or call for runners on expo.
SPEAKER_02So raising them right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, summertime uh a lot of time ends up being what we call camp calls. And uh, because my kids will be there uh, you know, quite a bit. My general manager, her daughter will be there opening up the vine. We had a couple other, you know, uh management that had kids, and so at any given time you would have three or five or seven kids running around.
SPEAKER_02What a fun childhood.
SPEAKER_00And uh, but you know, my kids uh are the ones that know where the chocolate's hidden, they know where you know all the secrets that there's probably popsicles in the freezer in the basement. That that they know all of these things. They don't understand that some of those things I plant, so they won't get into anything else. But uh but I can always decoy. But I can always tell when the bag's not put away right, uh who's been in there.
SPEAKER_02So well, speaking of your kids, I don't think a lot of people know the story behind Poppy and Olive and why you had named the site of Eppings Poppy and Olive.
SPEAKER_00Well, Poppy and Olive, uh, you know, the restaurant originally uh, you know, was supposed to be kind of a parent-friendly non-chucky cheese or you know, you have the biggest bathroom in Lexington, Kentucky.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I think you can fit two or three strollers in there. Everyone talks about this. You know this, right?
SPEAKER_00You can strap your little one in to where you can actually friendly bathroom. And uh, you know, unfortunately, COVID kind of you know took the wind out of the sails on m on m most of what we wanted to do there. But you know, poppy and olive, we found out about my daughter when she was the size of an olive and found out about my son when he was the size of a poppy seed.
SPEAKER_01Love it.
SPEAKER_00And so poppy and olive big became that. And then unfortunately, COVID came through and you couldn't share things and we couldn't do the play-dows, and you know, and yeah, and just like any place, you know, it evolves as as it goes, and we still have those touches for the families that come in. Oh, it's still totally family friendly. And still get uh, you know, a lot of that clientele, but Eppings kind of ate some of that uh just as we got busier in Eppings and needed more square footage and you know, COVID COVID was fun.
SPEAKER_02Especially for the restaurant industry. Yeah, it was a breeze for you guys.
SPEAKER_00Oh, peace cake, peace cake. I'd do it all over again. Yeah, in a heartbeat. No, no,
How Kohl’s Brought Him Home
SPEAKER_00okay.
SPEAKER_02Let's talk about the building though of Kohl's because you have a long time history with it, correct? Yeah. So right there on Maine and not Walton. Ashland. Ashland, yes, Maine and Ashland. And you at one point roller skated through it like as a child, right?
SPEAKER_00Oh, roller skated, rode a bike. Uh, you know, my uh my ya and papu on the corner of Kramer and Walton ran the Arima. Market. My Yaiz house was next door. It's now a hair salon. And then my dad lived in the duplex on the other side on Kramer. My mom and my stepdad live on High Street on the other side of Woodland Park. So just rolling back and forth to, you know, my Yaya's house or my dad's house, uh, you know, from my my parents' house, you know, we were always in that parking lot, always riding our skateboards or bikes. And it was like a store. It was Joan's pharmacy at the point. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh, you know, my cousins are, you know, six or eight years older than I am. So they would run up the street and, you know, go to the pharmacy and get the little balsa wood airplanes with the rubber bands and kites. And so, you know, the this neighborhood in general, you know, was my stomping round from as far back as I can remember.
SPEAKER_02It's like you were like OG warehouse block.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. Yeah, we well, as I was laughing with Chad, we we weren't allowed to come up here as kids because it was the seedier side of the neighborhood neighborhood. Sure was for a long time. So it's been neat to watch this development take over and watch, you know, families strolling around and just uh thriving businesses and has made it uh very neat.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And so you, if I remember correctly, you like really cut your teeth and got in in Cincinnati was when you really were like, you know, learning the ropes and like up and then you decide I'm going back to Lexington to open up something, and then that particular building was available, right?
SPEAKER_00And well, it was that building that brought me back. Yeah. Oh, okay. My my uncle and stepdad or step uncle and stepdad had uh uh talking to somebody at a dinner party, uh found out that that location was gonna become available and started talking to me about moving back home to do that. Uh, you know, I was happy in Cincinnati, I was thriving. I'd been uh chef at Ember's up there for seven years at that point with that group for 12 years. Uh, you know, had been there for 18 years and didn't didn't really uh never pictured myself coming back home, pictured myself heading to Santa Fe or Colorado or you know, somewhere else. But restaurants are kind of time warps. Uh, you know, you look up and six months are gone, and you know, you just uh that's the energy of a look of a restaurant I love is you know, you've got your work family here, and we really do party together, cry together, you know, laugh together, sweat together. You're in the trenches, yeah, of course. But uh again, it's you know, it's a location that I was familiar with. It's a you know very neat building. Uh, you know, the history of the building all the way back to the Stirrup Cup and Jones Pharmacy and Maine on Main, it's you know uh been a lot of uh you know different iterations. And you know, originally we were gonna open up a burger joint there. Really?
SPEAKER_02And so why not why not a burger joint?
SPEAKER_00You know, the more time uh you know I had spent in the building and just uh you know started writing menus, every menu that I came to ended up being, you know, white tablecloth fine dining. And uh, you know, as I presented it to uh you know the others involved, they were like, What in the hell is this? And I was like, You said burgers. I was like, this is you know, this is my comfort zone. Yeah. And uh and and just like for sales, I think at that point, you know, Lexington was really ready for you know something like that to see all the fun places that have opened up since downtown. Uh, you know, it's been really neat to to see Lexington really become kind of a foodie, you know, just destination. Absolutely. Yeah. Um so but uh but the timing on that, you know, really just couldn't have been better. Um, you know, being on Main Street, I think at that time, 25,000 cars a day were driving past.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, smart.
SPEAKER_00So that location is kind of if you can't make it there, you're not gonna make it anywhere.
SPEAKER_02So do or die. So if the building had not become available, would you still be in Cincinnati?
SPEAKER_00I probably would be. Wow, okay. You know, again, I didn't I didn't have anything to, you know, draw me home. Uh, you know, and my mom and dad will, you know, laugh that they, you know, pulled the strings to, you know, get get me back down here, but I just saw you know a great opportunity. Uh, you know, I was fascinated with how much Lexington had changed. I started coming down about once a week. You know, in 18 years, my typical, you know, visit home was to come say hey to my parents, hi to my dad, sure, you know, head on back. And I was always eager to get back to my my friends and work and everything up there. So I hadn't really spent a lot of time downtown or around. And, you know, back in 96 when I'm 94 when I left, there wasn't anything to do. And uh, so you know, I came downtown and saw Thursday Night Live happening and all the bars down there, you know, that were just full of people, uh, you know, and all the you know, restaurants and development down there that were happening and figured let's give her a go.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I mean, they love that building, maybe as much, if not more so, than you. I mean, and then and they're nice. Like you walk in, but you can tell it's like assigned seat, like they have assigned their seating, you know.
SPEAKER_00It's like that classroom where you know there's not really assigned seats, but we all know that that's rocky seats. Yeah. And uh no, I've always laughed about Cole's bar in particular because if it wasn't my bar, it would be my bar. Yeah. And, you know, I really enjoy that, you know, there's only eight seats, there's not a whole lot of room. It's you know, we we lighted it up. The ceilings used to be black, so it really used to, you know, be a cave. Uh, but the community that's formed in there, you know, my mom laughs all the time. They had started uh a couple years ago now doing what they call Friday for Friends. And they come in and sit at the table in front of the fireplace in the bar and you know, invite whoever. Uh, it could be longtime friends, could be somebody that they met in the line at the grocery store that they just started a conversation. I love it. And they have had the neatest experience, you know, being in there. And obviously, everybody, you know, all the regulars know that they're my parents, but now everybody who is a regular at that bar has been at Friday for Friends. Uh actually they have a group of eight coming in tonight that uh is all of those folks uh together. And it's really neat. And then, you know, it gets back to kind of the you know, the social club downtown is I think everybody is starving for you know that community. And you know, and Cole's bars literally cheers. Everybody knows your name, yes. And uh, and you know, and so it's it's been a lot of fun to, you know, for me that's the fun of of restaurant. And I have, you know, I always had my bars and my restaurants that I like to go, you know, hang out in. I I like a restaurant bar because I know with the bartender I can chit-chat about, you know, either life or you know, how they love or hate their job and uh the ins and outs, but I also get to watch, you know, what what they're doing and equipment that they have and techniques that they're using. And uh, but you know, the Cole staff, you know, uh is kind of a unicorn staff. I mean, most of my bartenders have been, or several of my bartenders have been with me for longer than 12 years. Uh, you know, several have been with me for eight or nine years at this point. Uh, so you know, it really is walking into cheers. Um, you know, and uh I always tell them, you know, my name's on the sign for the restaurant, but it truly is their restaurant. Uh, you know, our guests are coming in, not necessarily for our burger, but you know, to say hi to John or Austin or Paige and see what's going on in their lives. And, you know, they'll even some of them they'll, you know, go to get invited to parties and you know, all kinds. So it's so it's been uh it it's a fun experiment and uh just people being social.
SPEAKER_02Well, you sound good at community building. I mean, you are you you know it takes a good team and it's important to you know facilitate all of that.
SPEAKER_00No, 100%.
Designing Eppings Around The Bar
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So tell me about Eppings when you opened Eppings. It's like how much time do we have?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, that's uh you know, another one of those things where construction uh you know go goes. We are, and and you know, and that that comes with certain uh you know issues, but you know, ultimately, you know, the bones of an old building are you don't get any better. I mean, you you really don't. And turning this from national provisions, which was you know an open air market, and you know, really again another, you know, space we took over with dark colors and kind of moody. And, you know, we really uh with the success we had had at Goles and Coles Bar, that was kind of, you know, the objective here was to build a bar as kind of the heart of the restaurant. Sure. Um, you know, and that's why we we knocked holes, had Chad knock holes in the walls for us so we could have a nice wraparound bar to where people can, you know, see each other. And you know, you always want to create that space to see and be seen and you know, and you get to see who's coming in. And so really the heart of you know, the restaurant was, you know, the bar, but we wanted to create a space that you know you could come in for you know any occasion. So, you know, where we are now is what I always refer to as kind of the date night dining room.
SPEAKER_02It's such a date night space. There's everyone talks about that.
SPEAKER_00There's no TVs, there's no distractions, there's no I, you know, I I typically beautiful and it's clean and it's consistently great food. Yeah, and then you know, on the other side, if you want to come in and watch the ball game, we've got the TVs above the bar and you know, a little more uh, you know, community-based seating. Uh, you know, typically we don't use our community tables very much for you know, two tops and three tops. It's usually we've turned into a you know uh a people know they can come that has a big party and we can take care of them. And then, you know, the poppy and olive, you know, trying to at that point, you know, our kids were young and again we want good food and a nice cocktail. And you know, uh I I love uh I love a Mexican place as much as you know anybody else. But uh, you know, we would watch people bring kids into Kohl's and they were terrified that you know, watching them reach for wine glasses and you know, and then we don't, you know, it's cost of doing business if a kid knocks over a glass or you know, even a grown-up. Uh, but we wanted to create that space so parents could relax and eat and have a good time. And if your kid's bouncing in the booth, fine. Yeah, you know, as long as long as they're not, you know, tearing the place down, and then, you know, with the uh party rooms, uh, you know, that gave us the aspect of you know, some private dining. Yeah. Um, but at the core was, you know, the bar and creating hopefully that same community that we had created and uh at Kohl's, but just more room for more community. And uh and we have found that to be the case. I mean, at you know, four o'clock for happy hour, there's a line out the door waiting for the colour.
SPEAKER_02Always, always it it's because of the five dollar old fashions, yeah, right? Well, hopefully that's not not all of it. No, no, no, of course not.
SPEAKER_00That's how we got them in the door.
SPEAKER_02That's right.
SPEAKER_00And uh, but we we get that same sort of community, and you know, and a lot of the staff here in the front of the house has been with us uh, you know, for quite some time. And you know, as you you know, get that age in on you know your staff, they know your guest uh, you know, better than the guest knows themselves. I mean, you know, a guest is always so impressed when they walk in and they just set nothing better.
SPEAKER_02I mean, there's nothing better.
SPEAKER_00Well, and everybody's always like, Oh my god, how do you remember my drink? And you know, the bartender's like, I can't forget your drink. And uh that's just you know how how how you roll up front is that facial recognition. And you know, and people are people are you know, they're habitual. I mean, uh sure there's certain restaurants that I go to that I have not tried anything else on their menu because I found that one thing that I enjoy.
SPEAKER_02Same way.
SPEAKER_00And if I were to go a couple of times in a week, I would probably branch out. But you know, once you find that again, it's consistency.
SPEAKER_02I know.
SPEAKER_00Uh once you find that one that checks all the boxes, I'm not gonna try anything else because this is what I want, this is what I came in for.
SPEAKER_02I completely agree.
SPEAKER_00You know, and I think that's the same for here, and you know, everywhere we change our menus quite a bit, so I get some flack sometimes of why'd you take that off the menu?
SPEAKER_02Uh especially, but but you're so good about seasonal and you're always using you know uh local things all the time. And I love your spring menu. Yeah. Sure. It's like everything, it's like, oh, thank God things are growing again. You know, like, oh, this is so good.
SPEAKER_00And this is why I need my chefs because I am more of a winter fall. Oh, archery. Oh, interesting. I mean stick to your bones, pot roast and short ribs and asabuko, and you know, all the things that uh take hours in the oven. That's what uh that that's what I like to cook and eat.
Country Ham Experiments And Food Science
SPEAKER_02So you've been playing your own, or at least last year you told me ham. Or you've been like curing your own ham. How's that going? You were like, I've got a pig in my garage.
SPEAKER_00If if you ask my wife, um not very well.
SPEAKER_02Oh no.
SPEAKER_00If you ask all of my chefs, fantastic. Okay, cool. Um, I believe I have 15 of them hanging in my garage right now. Oh no. And uh, well, again, that's kind of you know, I I've taken the mentorship to the extreme on that, but I want, you know, my chefs to participate in those kinds of things. Uh, you know, Country Ham, I've always loved Country Ham and have been fascinated to learn how to do it. Clem's Food does this every year, and it's been going on for, you know, years and years and years. It used to be the core of their business, and then they moved uh, you know, they they pivoted to other directions, but they have maintained this class that I think this year there were probably 180 people there, 150, and you know, included people that had done it, you know, 50 times and some that were new and their kids. And but uh but country ham, I mean, as you know, a food person, all of the things that I've ever tried to do in charcuterie of aging a whole muscle or a ham or anything has always been 100% control of the environment, the humidity, the temperature. Of course, you know, and country ham is you know is as old as you know, Kentucky. Um, so you know, you go through the process, and the whole process takes about uh six weeks by the time you take the hams home and hang them uh to let the salt equalize and you know, and all the different steps you take. And you know, I brought them home that first year and you know, and the temperature went from you know being in the 40s or 30s all the way up to the 80s, and I called you know Stephen Clem and I said, Hey man, it's bacon. I was like, I'm like, this goes against everything I have ever learned. Is this okay? And he's like, Oh, it's perfect, it's great. He's like, we hang them in, you know, this spot. Sometimes it hits 90 or 100 degrees, and he's like, That's just gonna develop all that flavor.
SPEAKER_01Amazing.
SPEAKER_00And uh so we you know started cooking those for the first time, you know, last year. And again, it's just kind of an experiment to, you know, to see now we've got so many hams hanging that we're trying them at 12 months and 15 months, and you know, and just uh, you know, to see the differences in them.
SPEAKER_02You need like like in bourbon rick houses, you just need like like a ham house.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, well, that's uh luckily there's there's no cars in my garage. Well, there's no room. Okay, not we're not without banging the windshield at this point. And uh, but it it's been a a fascinating thing to you know just to do and experiment with and see. And uh I love that. Again, it goes against everything I've ever learned as far as whole muscle and you know, and I feel like this is you know one of those traditions that'll get lost if people like me don't try to continue continue it on.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00You know, food preservation, uh, you know, play around with a lot of fermentation and things like that. Uh that's kind of you know where I'd gone before I got busy with multiple projects. Um, but you know, those are kind of the same as you know, throwing short ribs in an oven, you wait three years or three hours, you know, on fermentation. You throw stuff in a jar and keep an eye on it and wait, wait a couple months and see see what it turns into.
SPEAKER_02Always so much better.
SPEAKER_00So kim cheese and pickles and you know, and all of those things. Uh, you know, I did a little kombucha for a little while, and that was uh fascinating. Yeah. Um but for me, a lot of cooking has always been science. I was science in college before, you know, I was requested to take a uh a short time off to figure myself out. Uh and that's where I realized. A little sabbatical. Yes, a little sabbatical, and that's where I realized that uh, you know, kitchens and restaurants were where I wanted to be. Uh, but the science behind all of those things of lactofermentation and you know, hanging muscles and salt equilibrium, and you know, those those all keep my brain busy, and uh, you know, I enjoy those kinds of projects.
SPEAKER_02I like I like I like seeing that your interests, I mean, and I like that you know you you're you become kind of monomaniacal too. Like when you find something you really like, you really like follow it down.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and well, it's it's always interesting. We uh uh I just had a chef transition at Coles, and somewhere or another he pulled or found a menu from probably 13 years ago, uh looking at the the menu uh from Kohl's uh like one of your original. Yeah, one of our first year menus, which I have all of those items, you know, stored in in the you know our menu uh you know maker, but what those menus actually look like we don't know anymore. And so it was very interesting to see the menu and just see how we have grown and developed from that first menu. Yeah, you know, even you know, an old school dish like the Moroccan stew that has been on and off the menu for you know eons since the beginning, it was one of our original items, but the techniques we were using 14 years ago light years behind what we're doing now. Yeah. Uh and so it's always fun to see how that grows and develops. And uh, you know, that's where you always laugh at the new chefs because they want to put the kitchen sink and everything, uh, you know, and take out 12 ingredients and see what you're left with. And you know, and that's uh that's the fun of watching it.
SPEAKER_02I'm sure. Okay, last question, and it's a very important one.
Bourbon Habits And Downtown’s Future
SPEAKER_02What is your cocktail of choice? Like what is your drink?
SPEAKER_00Uh my drink is bourbon on the rocks. Boring. I'm just gonna go. With a little splash of water. I well anyways, well, Cincinnati for eons, and you know, at that time, once you cross the river, your bourbon selection just kind of went away. Dwindles, yeah. So I'm sure, you know, for years and years I was a makers in Coke with a lime and you know, did that for eons. But once I came back down to Lexington, and you know, everywhere you go, you've got just unlimited choices of you know, bourbon. I decided I didn't want to taint my bourbon anymore. So I started yeah, so I started just drinking it on the rocks. I do do a splash of water, which I know pisses some people off.
SPEAKER_02I don't care who it pisses off, and I don't care it being on the rocks either. It makes people mad that it's on ice. I'm like, I want it cold.
SPEAKER_00It's to slow me down.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, true.
SPEAKER_01Self-preservation.
SPEAKER_00It it is. I mean, that's you know, as uh as the difference between being a chef and an owner is you've got a lot less time to do those kinds of things and then add, you know, family on top of it. Uh, but I've always lived under the uh guise of one's just right, two are too many, and three are too few. Uh-huh. So if I so if I get to that third one, yeah, yeah, yeah. Bad things can happen. Um, mainly how I feel the next day. Um but no, I use that to kind of slow me down a little bit. But uh I I can drink it neat. I just prefer not to prefer it cold too. And uh, but but I do if I am out to uh you know a restaurant that I'm you know trying to check out, I always try to order something off of their drink menu. Just uh, you know, you're always looking for ideas and you know techniques. And uh and I actually had a paper plane a couple of weeks ago.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's it's it's growing in popularity, I've noticed. The paper people are liking the paper plane. Well, everybody's going back to those old school ones. Old school ones, yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, and I always, you know, they're old school for a reason. Totally. Uh and you know, you may have forgotten about them, but they're really tried and true good cocktails. Uh and so it's uh, you know, whenever I see something like that on a menu, I I'll I'll go for it. Totally and then I'll switch to bourbon.
SPEAKER_02Stick your foot out just a little bit and then back in the comfort zone.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_02So well, thank you so much for being on today. Well, really appreciate it. Best of luck with all your projects. I'm sure next time we'll talk, you'll have opened up two more things.
SPEAKER_00I hope not. Well, we'll we'll we'll see what we'll see what happens. No, I've been very fortunate with the partnerships that I have uh come across, especially in the last couple of years. And uh it has been uh the downtown project has been very exciting. And again, it's you know, for me, downtown watching the developer turn most of the building into condos. He's got another condo project that's uh you know g gonna happen uh here soon. But to watch Lexington kind of grow inward a little bit, I think is is really what downtown needs. And you know, used to be, you know, when I was in high school, you'd drive five minutes in any direction and you were in Egypt. Uh now that's a 15 or 20 minute drive before you hit the farmland. So I think it would be good for Lexington to, you know, a little more investment in downtown and you know, make that uh, you know, a nice living space. And you know, they're doing a lot of great things with Phoenix Park and Gatton Park and you know, all of those projects going on to really bring people downtown, but we really need the people to live downtown and and I think we're on a good path there. Yeah, so thanks again. So we'll get these done and we'll see what happens.
SPEAKER_02And just see what happens from there. Stay tuned.